John Wavra:  We're on the record that I'm going to tape this conversation.  Today is Wednesday, January 31, 2007.  I should say I'm talking with Wesley Jefferies via phone. He lives in Baltimore, Maryland.  I'm John Wavra and I live in Omaha, Nebraska.  Weslely served with Bravo Battery 6/27th Field Artillery from November 65 to March 66 in Vietnam.  And, I'm going to make sure that's okay with you if I tape it?

Wesley Jefferies:  Yes, that would be fine.

JW:  I'm just wonder if we can maybe start - I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions.

JW:  Maybe what we can do is start with some background on you. And I'm wondering - did you enlist in the Army or were you drafted?

WJ:  No, I'm drafted.

JW:  What month and year did you go in, do you remember?

WJ:  I think it was April . . . 4, 1964.

JW:  And where did you do your basic training at?

WJ:  Fort Gordon, Georgia.

JW:  They sent you way down south.

WJ:  First, we went to Ft. Jackson, South Carolina ....  and from there they bused us to Ft. Gordon, Georgia.

JW:  And where did you do your secondary or AIT training?  Was it at Ft. Sill?

WJ:  No, it was at Ft. Chaffee, Arkansas

JW:  Okay, and were you trained as an artilleryman or some other MOS?

WJ:  No, artilleryman

JW:  You were, so at one time Ft. Chaffee was the center for training for artillery, hah?

WJ:  Yes

JW:  Rather than Ft. Sill?

WJ:  Yes, Ft Sill there might have been training out there too --- because when we went to Ft. Chaffee we were there  ---- maybe two, three months, something like that --- before they relocated the battalion to Ft. Bliss, Texas

JW:  It's my understanding that you accompanied the guns and the equipment of 6/27th Artillery from Ft Bliss, Texas to Beaumont, Texas to the port there?

WJ:  Yes

JW:  Did you go by a train, then or how did you get there?

WJ:  Yes, we went by train.  We were the Equipment Guards.

JW:  And did you volunteer for this or did they just pick you?

WJ:  No, I was picked.

JW:  How many guys were there?

WJ:  Okay, it was seven and two officers.

JW:  No NCO's?

WJ:  Okay, Yes, they were with the seven enlisted men.  Now I forgot exactly how many NCO's there were.

JW:  Probably not that many.  Maybe one?

WJ:  Yes

JW:  Why didn't they send the guns through Oakland (California) with the troops?

RJ:  At that time you had --- peace activists. You know they were blocking the train.  There was a lot of problems there.  They were protesting.  Protesting the war and with the build up and everything.

WJ:  So were they afraid these protestors might do something to stop the equipment train or something?

RJ:  Yes they thought they might block them or whatever, but it was our job to keep them away from the train if we came in contact with any of them.

JW:  It must have been interesting to watch how they loaded all these guns onto the ship and stuff.

WJ:  Oh yes it was.  Yes, they had the cranes --- we would drive them up under the cranes and they would load them right up now.  However they tied them down in the hold of the ship, I couldn't tell you.

JW:  I see there's a picture, this must be you driving one , looks like an 8 inch.

RW:  Yes.

JW:  And they had cables holding the gun barrel down.

RW:  Yes.

JW:  This was a one day trip from Ft. Bliss, then to the port at Beaumont, (Texas).

WJ:  No.  No, it was either two or three days.

JW:  It took that long, huh?

WJ:  Yes, I don't remember just exactly.

JW:  Did you stop in route some place besides?

WJ:  We stopped in Houston, Texas.  I think they were stopping to change train crews.

JW:  Did the train  --- went right up to the port or did it go to a train depot in Beaumont, then and you had to drive the equipment somewhere?

WJ:  Okay, no, the train went right up to the port.

JW:  So you basically just had to drive the stuff off of the train, the flatbed cars then, and get them lined up so they, whatever they called them (cranes), they would use to put them on the ship then, huh?

WJ:  No what happened --- they lined the vehicles up and then as they started loading them onto the ship we drove them to the ship.

JW:  Do you remember at all the date that the ship left Beaumont, Texas?

WJ:  Ah, no.

JW:  I'm really taxing your memory here.  And so do you remember approximately how many days it took you to get to the Panama Canal?

WJ:  That might have been a two day trip.  You see what happened we hit a storm in the Gulf of Mexico and the first day the ship rocked and tossed and turned and that.  About five us were sick as dogs.

JW:  I'll bet you were. (Both Wesley and John are laughing)

WJ:  That was the first time myself,  I was on a ship.

JW:  Ya, ya, I would have been sick right with you if I had been there.

JW:  So, I noticed there were photographs of your compartment there.  What were there two of you per compartment?

WJ:  Yes, Two to a compartment and ah, we had some of the better accommodations then the regular troop ship.

JW:  They looked like they were pretty comfortable quarters.  Were they?

WJ:  Oh, they were. They were very good.

JW:  I noticed in one of the photographs that somebody stowed away a couple of cases of Coca Cola?

WJ:  Yes, they were mine.  Everybody brought what they wanted and carried it on the ship.

JW:   So how was the food on this ship?

WJ:  The food was very good.  We ate with the crew often.  And they would bring out a menu for breakfast --- lunch time and you selected exactly what you wanted.

JW:  Really, that sounds good.

WJ:  Yes

JW:  This was --- Was this a commercial ship, then?

WJ:  Ah, yes.

JW:  I've done a little looking and some research an stuff and it looks like there was a steamship company called the Lykes Lines and they named each one of the ships after there kids? --- and that's why your ship was named the Dick Lykes.

WJ:  Right, correct, and I think they were out of Houston, Texas.

JW:  Did you have any other kind of duties when you were on ship?

WJ:  No, the first couple of days we did physical training and after that the officers said heck with it, so we sat back, we just sat back and relaxed and played cards or mingled with the crew or you know whatever the guys wanted to do.

JW:  Sounds like a pretty decent crossing, then.

WJ:  Oh, it was.

JW:  What was your typical day like?  What time did you get up in the morning?

WJ:  Most of the time I guess we were up about 6 or 7 o'clock.

JW:  Typical military time you got up then?

WJ:  Yes, you know, once you get used to getting up that early in the morning and everything,  it's a hard habit to break.

JW:  What time did you go to bed at night, then?

WJ:  Okay, most of the time I'd say 10 - 11 o'clock, something like that.

JW:  What did you do with your time, you said you played cards.  Did you listen to radios or did they have movies somewhere on board, or?

WJ:  No, Not that I remember.  Radios?  I'm not sure.

JW:  Probably nothing way out there at sea.

WJ:  Pardon me?

JW:  Probably no radio transmission way out  at sea anyway.

WJ:  Right.  That was the first time I read the Bible all the way through as I thought it was about time for me to get closer to the Lord (They both laugh)

JW:  Sure, okay. You had a lot of time to contemplate what was ahead for you then, didn't you?

WJ:  Right, no but our battalion, they  went over on the U.S. Gordon, the troop carrier.

JW:  That's right I guess the first guys, they took as much time as you did too.  It was the later guys, like us, that ended up flying over there.

WJ:  Right, cause see what happened is when we went is when the build up started. In May of 65, is when President Johnson committed American Forces to Vietnam --- and we were all in the dayroom. We were sitting back, listening, hoping they didn't extend us, because we thought we would be extended for an extra year, whatever. And what they did was they didn't extend us but they spent a lot of time, they spent 30 days just to get a rotation system set up. No what I say they had medics , ah, that I knew, they just went over for just thirty days and they sent a replacement in for them and that started the replacement for their purposes.

JW:  You said you stopped in Panama, the Panama Canal, were you able to get off in Panama City or anything or did you have to stay on ship.

WJ:  No, we got disembark the ship and we went around the town site seeing and bought some souvenirs and everything.

JW:  Well, that must have been quite an experience to through the Panama Canal?

WJ:  Yes, it was very interesting.

JW:  When you got to Panama there were a lot ships there you had to kind of line up and wait your turn to go through the canal, then?

WJ:  Yes

JW:  That take a couple of days to finally get through that?

WJ:  Okay, no I don't think it took that long.  I don't remember exactly, how long it was.

JW:  Looks like there was - you have a picture of what looks like a pilot ship that must have?

WJ:  Yes, they brought a Panamanian pilot out and he would guide the ship through the lock.

JW:  So you had a little bit of time to take some photos on the deck ship and stuff, did you go out during the daytime and go out on the (deck) and look at the ocean or did you stay pretty much inside?

WJ:  Oh no, we went outside and just enjoyed the full run of the ship. We were all over that place.

JW:  That must have been a really interesting trip since you were not a navy person?

WJ:  Right, it was.

JW:  Anything funny happen --- any kind of story like that you remember?

WJ:  The only one thing I remember, it wasn't funny, but it was kind of scary.  We got over there closest to Vietnam and the U.S. Navy surrounded and what happened the crew on the ship weren't responding, to the Morse Code that the Navy was sending out, and they wanted to know what we were doing in the water.  Then someone went and got the Captain of the ship and told him we were being surrounded by the U.S. Navy, and I mean these people, it was just like, they were coming up over the hill from nowhere

JW:  Somebody goofed up and didn't respond for their request for response then, huh?

WJ:  Right --- to identify yourself, you know what you were doing in their body of water.

JW:  You got to Vung Tau, and you ended up spending a couple of days off-coast, waiting?

WJ:  Yes

JW:  Did you unload at that port there (Vung Tau) or where did you actually end up unloading?

WJ:  No what happened, we the call to move, they carried us up the Saigon River to the Port of Saigon and we unloaded there.

JW:  So when you got to the port were you pretty much done there then or did you wait until the equipment was unloaded?

WJ:  No we waited until the equipment was unloaded along the river to the Port of Saigon.  Then once the equipment was unloaded we all pulled out and went to the staging area.

JW:  You didn't get off at Vung Tau or anything then, huh you just basically just went up to Saigon, then?

WJ:  No, Right, we stayed on the ship.  And what they did they brought, I think was four MP's out and they told they were taking over the guarding of the ship.

JW:  And so, were you relieved of duty then, did you leave the ship of did you just stay with it till it was unloaded?

WJ:  No, we just stayed with it.  The MP's, they pulled security, and you add the people and the people if they would come near the ship they were shook down.  They didn't let anyone come near the ship.

JW:  What were your first impressions of the Saigon Area, then?

WJ:  It was very interesting, because you know we went to town, and we did some shopping and got haircuts and everything, cause you know our hair was long after having been on the water for over thirty days.

JW:  No barbers on the ship, huh?

WJ:  Ah, no.

JW:  So you got some leave time in Saigon, did you?

WJ:  Yes we might have been there for a couple of days.

JW:  So how much time did you have left of your actual service time when you got to Vietnam, did you have a whole year over there or?

WJ:  Ah No, no, no, no.  When I went, my expiration was up April the --- Fourth, and I left Vietnam March 31st.

JW:  So how would you rate the crossing on this ship to Vietnam on a scale of 1 to 10 as far as just the whole experience?  You know what I mean?

WJ:  I would rate it a 10.

JW:  A ten, you had a good time and ---?

WJ:  Yes, we had a good time, we got along with the crew and everything --- you know we had no problems.

JW:  So when you got to the port were you pretty much done there then or did you wait until the equipment was unloaded?

WJ:  No we waited until the equipment was unloaded and once the equipment was unloaded we all pulled out and went to the Staging Area.

JW:  So you joined the rest of, the other guys then that had gone on the troop ship them?

WJ:  Yes the main body.

JW:  And that's the picture you show of being at that Staging Area then?

WJ:  Right

JW:  I think some of the history I got says that Staging Area was somewhere on the grounds of Saigon University, I think.  Do you now that or didn't you really --- ?

WJ:  No, I didn't  know exactly where it was.

JW:  In talking with you before you said that you were assigned to Bravo Battery, right?

WJ:  Yes, correct.

JW:  It didn't look like you had the greatest conditions at that Staging Area though, did you?

WJ:  No, that wasn't.  We slept in shelter halves, and you know, just preparing to go to the forward area.

JW:  And the first place that Bravo Battery went, I think, was a place called Ben Cat, if I understand?

WJ:  Right

JW:  Do you remember about how long you were there?

WJ:  I don't know, It might have been a couple days, but see that was around the 173rd Airborne, compound, and we fired from there.

JW:  And so from Ben Cat did you go to Phouc Vinh?

WJ:  Yes, I think so.

JW:  And you went via truck then, or were you still driving the equipment?

WJ:  Okay, no, we went with the truck convoy.  It was the 4th Calvary, they escorted us.

JW:  You've got some pictures of Phouc Vinh.  It's kind of a typical Vietnamese town, the downtown area.  What were your first impressions when you saw that and were taking pictures and stuff?

WJ:  You know, it was strange --- because the village put into mind of an old western town.

JW:  Did it?  What gave you that feeling?

WJ:  The way the buildings looked and they were built and everything.

JW:  Were you able to actually spend any time in Phouc Vinh or did you drive right through and?

WJ:  No, we stopped in.  Did a little shopping and everything, but see we were right outside of the village.

JW:  I see, that's where you set up was it?

WJ:  Yes.

JW:  When you --- set up there did you have to build stuff from scratch there, then?

WJ:  Oh yes, all the area that we moved to we had to clear it with machetes and everything, and then we had to dig foxholes, set up the tents, lay out the concertina wire.  Each area we went to we did basically the same thing.

JW:  You were in virgin country there, then?

WJ:  Yes

JW:  Did you feel like you were in dangerous country?

WJ:  It was, you knew the thing we would take sniper fire.

JW:  Were you?

WJ:  At different times.

JW:  So the enemy knew you were there, in other words?

WJ:  Oh, oh yes, they knew we were there.

JW:  What was the food like when you were there at Phouc Vinh?

WJ: Okay, we had a lot of C-Rations.  The really decent meals was Thanksgiving of 65 and Christmas.  Ya, they flew us out hot turkey and stuffing and cranberry sauce and salads.

JW:  So the guns, basically the first place you set up then, was near Phouc Vinh?  Did you go out, did the guns out on any field missions from Phouc Vinh?

WJ:  Ah, yes

JW:  What was it like to go out on those?

WJ:  Okay, --- I didn't go,  I stayed in base camp.

JW:  You didn't?  Oh, okay you were lucky you didn't have to go out into those boonies.

JW:  I noticed here you took a picture of what must have been a laundry at --- it must have been Phouc Vinh.  You've got people looks like, ah, I don't know if that's you?

WJ:  Yes, that's me standing

JW:  There under a kind of roof along, where they were along a fence area where they must have been doing laundry there?

WJ:  Right, some kind of hut and the lady was sitting there ironing our clothes.

JW:  Phouc Vinh I'm looking at.  Looks like the Garbage Dump where the Vietnamese made good use of all the American cast-off stuff.

WJ:  Right, now, that was a shock to me because I wasn't used to seeing anything like that.  People going through other peoples garbage.

JW:  By the time you were coming back from Vietnam that probably didn't shock you anymore either, did it?

WJ:  No, I but I did tell everybody about it.  I just couldn't believe it.

JW:  I was always amazed at all the stuff taht they used to make from the stuff that the military threw away, you know.

WJ:  Oh Ya, that's true.

JW:  Remember they used to do roofs with pop cans they'd open up and --- all kinds of stuff like that.  They were very ingenious.

WJ:  We didn't see that.  All we knew, you know we had aiming stakes to fire by, with the Vietnamese (ARVN) they would take a pie pan or something like that and ah, and use it for an aiming stick on their pack artillery and mortars.

JW:  So you actually didn't work on one of the guns then, you did the commo for them, huh?

WJ:  Yah, I didn't work on no guns.  Just the Commo.

JW:  Okay, and then you pulled guard duty, I assume.

WJ:  Yes, guard duty, we used to have to go pick up the rations, you know whatever detail they need there was the Commo Section.

JW:  How did you luck out and get in the Commo Section?  Just got picked?

WJ:  Ya, I don't know how they went about that.  That's what happened.

JW:  Cause working on those guns was not picnic.

WJ:  Oh, I can imagine, lifting those two hundred pound rounds.

JW:  I don't know if you met Jim Hynes who was Florida, he worked on the guns. He was an ammo humper and he's got some pictures there when he really had a set of muscles on him.

WJ:  Right, I know what you mean.  Now I did pull the spring on a couple of them when they had fire missions.

JW:  Oh, did you?  So you got the experience of firing a gun then, huh?

JW:  I see you went to a USO show there.  Remember who it was or was it just a small one?

WJ:  Yah, no it was a small one.  Think it was guy named Gilbert Brenneman or something like that, I'm not sure.

JW:  Brenneman, you say?

WJ:  Yes.

JW:  I see.  Well it looks fun.

WJ:  That was this shown in 1965.

JW:  When did you finely leave Vietnam, then?

WJ:  I left, it must have been March 27th, somewhere around there.

JW:  And this was 60...66?

WJ:  Sixty-six.

JW:  When you got back did you get an early out.  Did you have less than 6 months left or did you have to serve some more time when you got back?

WJ:  Oh no, when I got back to the States I had about four days left --- and my enlistment was up.

JW:  And did you go through Oakland or where did you got through?

WJ:  Yes, Oakland, Oakland, California.

JW:  Okay and did you fly from Oakland or did you take a train or how did you get home?

WJ:  Naw, I flew home.

JW:  You did?  Glad to get home, I'll bet?

WJ:  Yes, (Laughs)

JW:  You were single then, weren't you?

WJ: Correct.

JW:  Eventually Bravo Battery moved up to a place on the DMZ called Gia Linh.  So you missed out on that in September of 66.  You said you got home in April, huh?

WJ:  Right. I read about that on the Internet.

JW:  You did?  Did you have any friends in the Battery that were still there that ended up going up there? 

WJ:  No, most of the people you know they left right after I did.

JW:  They did?

WJ:  The last three months.

JW:  I see, so it was pretty much all new guys that ended up going up to the DMZ, then?

WJ:  Yes.

JW: What did you do when you first got out of the Army

WJ:  I laid back for about two weeks and then I went to work with General Motors --- went back to work with General Motors.

JW:  You had been working for them before when you got drafted, then?

WJ:  Yes.

JW:  How long before you got married?

WJ:  About three months.

JW:  Well that wasn't very long.  You knew Stella from before or did you meet her when you got home? 

WJ:  Yes, I knew her.

JW:  So she was waiting for you then, huh?

WJ:  Yes.

JW:  Did she write to you when you were in Vietnam?

WJ:  Yes, she did.

JW:  Well, that's great.  So you had a Vietnam romance then back going?  (Laughs)  Well, you got a good -- you picked a good one. (Both laugh)

WJ:  Right, I thought.

JW:  Were there any friends or anybody you kept in touch with at all?

WJ:  Ah, I kept in touch with about two guys, but I lost touch with them in the last ten years.

JW:  Well, maybe they'll find the website at some point and get back in touch with you.

WJ:  I know, that's what I thought - some other guys would find the website in the last ten years and come to the reunion, but evidently they didn't.

JW:  Well some of them it just takes longer then others, you know?

JW:  Is there anything in your tour of duty in Vietnam that stands out, any one incident  or anything?

WJ:  Well, well we used to have some fun over there, you know what I mean.  It wasn't all bad, but we made the best of a bad situation.

JW:  Sure.  You don't need to answer this question if you don't want to, huh, so --- Do you think it was worth it for you to go into the Army and to go to Vietnam?

WJ:  Ya, I think so.  It was a good experience.

End of Interview.